CommDe - Art History Response #3

This should focus on a response to the BBC Documentary covering early permutations of the medium. It should also consider the Roberta Smith New York Times article in beginning to have a discussion about photography's origins, and how they relate to its present usage.

Please try not to think of photography as what you see everyday, and what you do with a camera. Think of it in terms of a way of seeing, and a rigorous process of creating a world with a lens. Alot of what you might consider "good" photographs have nothing to do with why photography is an art forum or what artists who make images are engaged with... so, be humble is what I'm saying in not so many words.

Please read my e-mail and also respond to the prior posters by citing them, and reacting. This is a dialogue.

I think we are having problems on downloading the files from Rapidshare.

In the past, many artists use camera to help with their drawing. They used camera obscura “to sketch objects more quickly and avoid difficulties of perspective” (Lamar, 2011). “Light is my wisdom and my enemy” (The Genius of Photography). Before the film role was invented, it took a really long time to take one photo. This is why the light is a big source for photography. Light can both make the picture looks good and ruins the picture. Thanks to new invention, these days we flash to help us deal with light problem.

“Photography is about the frame you put around the image. What comes in or what it cuts off and yet the story doesn’t end. It told beyond the frame through the kind of intuition” (The Genius of Photography). I agree with the quote. The image contains the story within itself. Even though the photo can’t frame the whole story, but by looking at it you can imagine the story that photo holds onto. Photograph also shows the motion and natural gesture of people. The photograph captures the event or what in front of it in natural way, the gesture of people, the motion, or people’s faces and expression.

Lamar, Connelly. “Photo Class Three” 2011. PDF file.

“The Genius of Photography.” The Genius of Photography Episode 01. BBC Four. 25 October 2007. Video.

The creation of the camera has also created the new strange world of photography. “ Everybody assumed that they knew what these pictures were going to look like. In fact, the photographic medium creates a lot of surprises. It doesn’t describe the world just the way you expected it to.”(The Genius of Photography). We had enjoyed the unexpected output photography offered and as now we are enjoying it too. “The mystery behind the effortlessness of the camera is the medium’s greatest power to this day”(my emphasis, The Genius of Photography). I think Photography has become an art form not only because of the beauty and uniqueness it offers, but the whole new world of seeing created for us to explore and learn from.

I do agree with nattakul.j that “The image contains the story within itself”. Photography has created a cropped image of a person’s view where some elements are cut off, which was not presented in painting where the painter painted the object as a whole, because of this cropped image from reality of a specific time, we can see the story behind the photo taken, or in other words, what is happening in the photo.

Tim Kirby. (2007). “The Genius of Photography” The Genius of Photography Episode 01. BBC Four

In the past, artists used a camera obscura as a device to help them with the perspective and other difficulties when they paint, but later, after the invention of Kodak ‘people’ started to take pictures more and more. It changed the camera industry a lot, taking pictures were not complicated as it used to be in the 19th century.

In our everyday lives, it is hard to imagine how it would be with out “Photography”. I agree with Nuttakul htat “Photography is about the frame you put around the image. What comes in or what it cuts off and yet the story doesn’t end. It told beyond the frame through the kind of intuition” (The Genius of Photography) We can tell story through the pictures because it shows everything like emotion or action of people. But as Chuck Closed stated, “It's the easiest medium in which to be competent, but it’s the hardest medium in which to have personal vision.” Photography let us capture every moment or every detail, but in terms of arts, since anyone has been able to take a photograph, it had lost the uniqueness in itself.

In my point of view, people do not see Photography as a form of art but as a form of enjoyment or maybe entertainment because nowadays, there are many programs available for people to decorate or correct their images to make them perfect or more interesting and also many different kinds of camera which make photography more interesting and enjoyable.

Lamar, Connelly. “Photo Class Three” 2011. PDF file.

“The Genius of Photography.” The Genius of Photography Episode 01. BBC Four

I agree with Nattakul.J that the image contains the story within itself even the photo can’t frame the whole story by capture some of the part of the real world but you can also guess of what is happening in that time.
“My job is try to capture what is going on, what the world is about now and to take a photograph to see what the world look like.” What the photographer takes is what they try to keep the day life for improving in the future and to keep it as a history. The photographer also said that “To hold the camera in your hand in the 1920 was the hold of future.” From this quote, a photograph can also be a useful piece of information, which is used for creating a new invention in the future. “Photography also became an original and propaganda exploring new technology and technique to review the shape of thing to come”

From the video, I like the sentence that said “ Photography is about the frame you put around the image what comes in what cut off and yet the story doesn’t end”. It means to me that photography is to frame what you see in the camera and what you want to tell the viewers. For example, I took pictures of chinatown with some friends last week. In my pictures showed what people were doing at that moment, the incredible gold exchange role, the delicious street food and landscape of chinatown at that very moment of time. It refers to the statement in the movie “Photography captures moments of time”.

Besides I agree with statements that said “ There is no seperation between the material you shoot with and the finish result. place the in the camera is the same place that be displayed” and “ The photograph creates a lot of surprises, it doesn’t describes the world but just the way you expect”. This telling me that you can tell the story by taking picture. It depends on me which points I want to tell by capturing my camera that moment from framing and then shooting it. Like I took a picture of worm eating the leafs.....

The camera obscura, the ancient technique basically using pin holes and lens to project an image, gives massive benefits to the artists undoubtedly. It’s a technique that can “shift” the view of the scenery to the other place (the screen). The artists use this technique to study so much things without the condition of surroundings. For example, if the artist wants to study how to draw a winter scene, he can do it in his studio as long as he wants and with his body warmed and all devices he wants by using the camera obscura. Or he can even enlarge the scene to get to the tiny details he wants.

The obscura had been used mainly by only the artists, until the invention of the photograph, the further step of the camera obscura. Rather than just “shift” the view, the photograph can “capture” it still, and actually using the same method to the drawing by “drawing with light” (LaMar, 2011). And it’s more like to keep to whole world in a single plate in that time. Just like a magic. Moreover, the way it tells its story is the same with the painting, like it said in The Genius of Photography that “Photography is about to put a frame around the image, what it comes in or what it cut off. And yet the story doesn’t end. It’s told beyond the frame through the kind of intuition.” Photography is indeed a form of art. So many techniques of photography were created just like when the painters developed the style of painting (can refer to The Genius of Photography’s “Photography always transforms when it describes. That’s the way of photography to control the transformation”). I do believe that when it comes with the ideas, no matter in any forms of it, it is art.

Lamar, Connelly. “Photo Class Three” 2011. PDF file.

“The Genius of Photography.” The Genius of Photography Episode 1. BBC Four

I personally think that the invention of the camera was not only just to capture a snapshot of a moment but to do what human beings does best, out compete each other. However this was a new technology at the time, a new, faster way of making and capturing glimpse of a moment. One of the main problems that photograph created was the fact that it was being made easy to do and most middle class people who would have to think about getting a painting of their family (proving that they have ever existed) but with photography, they don’t have to reach deep into their pockets anymore, let alone the lower class citizens. “There are no accidental masterpieces in painting, but there are accidental masterpieces in photography” (Chuck Close, Artist). What photography has created was that everyone can have a talent. Unlike painting where one would have to spend decades studying the forms of an object, people can now create their own little master pieces. The reasons that photography was prized more than painting was not only because of it being made more portable but because at that time it would seem like that this was the proof that someone would need to be remembered. A person may die but a picture can last forever. A painting may take several hours to make and even then it will not capture what was in front of the painter. “The eyes can see only what the mind is prepared to comprehend” (Henri Bergson). That means that the painting will come out like what the artist can understand. But a photograph, a photograph will not be bias; will not distort the image as long as the lens are properly aliened. This is one of the reasons why photograph had became popular.

I agree with Pakapat about photography is all about frame whatever that you want to tell the viewers through camera. In my opinion photograph can useful with the painting because photography can be add something or cut something out to frame the picture, like a real image that can tell story by its self and it can go on and on “it told beyond the frame through the kind of intuition” (The Genius of photography).

Photography is focus on something that you want to, you can experiment with the photography that every picture tells the different story and you can capture it in one frame, just like painting, photograph can be useful to help painting because when you focus the picture from camera and take the picture and use that picture to control light, position, color, and more. It can be useful to help with painting.

Photography would not be able to exist without the invention of Chemistry. It has been found that some chemicals such as silver salts are light-sensitive. Henry Fox Talbot, the inventor of calotype process, succeeded in printing an image onto the paper using chemicals. His photos are negative and laterally reversed. His invention contributed much to the development of photography as an artistic medium. In my own opinion, he proved that the camera allows us to reinterpret an image with an ease, easier than using paint or by drawing as he could not transform what he see on to a piece of paper.

By using camera, it provides one more medium to artists. Photography is similar to paintings as it "revealed so much, keep so much". A photograph is like a canvas, depending on the artist to choose a location and edit it to "control that transformation", just like when artists edit their painting on a canvas. A photograph could be unreal as the artist adjust it according to what they intend it to look like, colours, lighting, etc, just as the paintings. Basically, every now and then, artists use their mediums according to what they intent their works to look like, either realistic or unrealistic, but both are art which contain meanings and inside those works, "story doesn't end".

“The Genius of Photography.” The Genius of Photography Episode 1. BBC Four

As the photography has been invented in 1800s, it has been a huge development for human to capture a picture into a frame. Before, the technique of camera obscura has been use only for artists who want to “sketch objects more quickly and avoid the difficulties of perspective.” (Lamar, 2011) In that time, pictures that shown up from camera obscura were only a tool for people in order to crop their chosen landscape into a frame. The picture from the camera didn’t have the meaning or the story in itself. But in term of photography in 1800s, it gave the totally different view of capturing picture, “Photography is about the frame you put around the image what comes in what cut off and yet the story doesn’t end.” (The genius of photography) Photography has been a huge development for human to capture a picture into a frame. It speaks in itself; tell us the story once it has been taken. To crop off an unnecessary make people narrow their eye sight and drown into the meaning of every element that has been compose in the frame. As it said in the video, “Sometime it just random point of view but because it (the surrounding) has been crop off, it no longer random, it considers intentional.” (The genius of photography)

Lamar, Connelly. “Photo Class Three” 2011. PDF file.

“The Genius of Photography.” The Genius of Photography Episode 1. BBC Four

Back in the past when camera was invented, the main objective was supposedly "to sketch objects more quickly and avoid difficulties of perspective" (Lamar, 2011), obviously a mere tool for painters. In an industry, tools always have their own developer; the same goes to the cameras. Once cameras were developed for the better time and quality, it had become one great object to play with. Louis Daguerre and Henry Fox took it a step further, creating positive and negative images, experimenting with chemicals and films, making people question if photography was a form of art. If a painting was a form of art because the painter has considered the subject, the colors, the settings and many other aspects, wouldn't it mean that the person who chooses his subject, considers the settings, lighting and shadows, and clicks the shutter to capture the moment, is considered an artist also?

Positioning myself back in the old days when people started taking photographs, I'm sure I would have agreed that photography was a form of art since the mediums that were used to solve if a painting was art were the same as those of a photograph. Quoted in BBC Documentary 'The Genius of Photography,' "Photography is about the frame you put around the image. What comes in or what it cuts off and yet the story doesn’t end," was probably the strongest statement about photography, which I totally agree with. The interesting part is, in contrast with a painting, a photograph is a story told by the photographer, what is in his mind at the moment he captures the picture, and what he tries to tell by guiding you to focus on a particular thing, while it's the other way around for a painting, giving the viewer a chance to create each and own story to the picture they're looking at with their imagination. "A photograph is a photographer's way of seeing something" is what I'm trying to say here in not so many words. I believe this is what Nattakul and Titirat were both trying to say.

However, this technology is yet to be developed even further in the future by us humans. I wonder what else can a photograph do besides capturing the moment and expressing the photographer's point of view.

I think taking photos from the past and nowadays had changed. In the past people used the camera to capture the moments they really want to keep and they would make sure that the picture would come out real nice before taking the picture. Not taking a snapshots like nowadays because we got digital cameras now, we can take as much picture as we like without loosing a film. Although every picture has its own story. Even those profile pictures on social network that we're using. Like Nattakul J. had posted before,“Photography is about the frame you put around the image. What comes in or what it cuts off and yet the story doesn’t end. It told beyond the frame through the kind of intuition” (The Genius of Photography). But I disagree with Harn S., saying that 'a photograph will not be bias; will not distort the image as long as the lens are properly aliened.' Although the picture tells us stories but not every of them tell us the truth. It's up to the camera's view point and ourselves too. The photographer can hide the details by avoiding something in the photo or distort the truth by using camera's view point.

“The Genius of Photography.” The Genius of Photography Episode 1. BBC Four

I feel that Photography helps us to see the world in a different ways. First the Camera Obscura was developed so that artist can accurately be able to get the correct perspective in their painting. I think that way when people look at their painting they will be more engaged in it because they’ll feel like their actually in the painting looking at that landscape of that women. Still using the camera Obscura the first photo was taken. I capture a moment a memory that will be able to outlive the actual moment. Unlike the first camera obscura where the artist has to draw the new quicker photography can capture movement. This make it more realistic and so now people can take photo of other people without them posing. You get to see people just being themselves doing what they do. Photography because of its “capture” there is always a story behind the Photo you can know a little of the story by the hint’s in the photo but there will always be a mystery. It’s amazing how a photo can reveal a lot, but also keeps so much hidden. What we see in a photo varies depending on who is taking it, although their seeing through a lens it’s their choice on what angle, what focus and what they actually what to take. It is as if we get to see the world in how they see it for a brief moment. Because of this People can control what we see for example war. The government can choose to show the bad side of war or the good side of war. A photo is unique it is one of a kind, even though nowadays you can remake them but they were taken only once.

In my opinion, I like this idea, “Wanted to see more than the eye, and capture some scientific and magical freezing of time” by Eadweard Muybridge (65). I think this idea is so cool because everything can be more interesting, if I just look a little deeper in it. It is not just what it seems but also it also can be something else by touching the texture, looking nearly the object or etc. It makes me get more details about it and I can get in touch with it when I see the photo later. I can see what happened in this photo during that time because it is always be in my memories. It just likes a dream but still be real. I also like the way that, “the ancient painter used the Camera Obscura for helping his painting in the perspective view by using the reflection of the light through the lens to produce the upside down image” (2-4, my emphasis). This technique is quite interesting for me because of the way that the painter used the light to capture the perspective image for him. It can be used for quickly sketching the objects and helping to avoid the difficult perspective for sketching and painting (2, my emphasis). I think the innovation of photograph can not be ended. The new technologies will born and makes the easy way to take photos. I am sure about it as it happened from the Camera Obscura to the Digital Camera.

Lamar, Connelly. “Photo Class Three” 2011. PDF file.

Form the Global art history lecture people start to know the technology in 1400. Painters were used camera obscura to help their drawing by traces. Until 1826, we had a first photograph by French invertor it was took very long time to produce one image (Lamar,2011) . “it’s like to keep to whole world in a single plate in that time. Just like a magic” ( Paphavee Sakdanaraseth). As a time pass by the technology has developed digital camera has invented people are nowadays skip all the detail of film camera .For example before we took a shot we have t o check the light ,proportion, and shadow carefully . Today people use digital camera and shoot a picture careful less, they skip most of the detail by taking high quantity but low quality.

Lamar, Connelly. “Photo Class Three” 2011. PDF file.
“The Genius of Photography.” The Genius of Photography Episode 01. BBC Four. 25 October 2007. Video.

My opinion on invention of photography changes the way people live. As devices, former artists used camera obscura to help them with the better sketching and avoided difficulties of perspective when in past. But as time changes, the world changes, the technology comes to be known; camera and photography become more acknowledged to us latter people.
“Everybody assumed that they knew what these pictures were going to look like. In fact, the photographic medium creates a lot of surprises. It doesn’t describe the world just the way you expected it to.” (The Genius of Photography) I like this quote. Because it’s the real fact in the photographer’s world. We could never know the out coming photos that we took until we see it. Those photos are not the same even we had given our best effort. Still we couldn’t be sure that the photos will come out as good as we thought. Photo tells us story. Whenever we take out the camera and shoot the cropped environments; the photos we are taking are memorable. The inventions of camera force us to keep our memories, which make us realize that every moment is valuable.


Lamar, Connelly. “Photo Class Three” 2011. PDF file.
“The Genius of Photography.” The Genius of Photography Episode 01. BBC Four

I agree with this video that each photo contain lots of story by the way of composing, lighting and surrounding. I think that If we look through each frame closely, we will know what the picture going to tell us.

In my opinion, Photography and painting are the different expression. For example, I traveled in Pai. And I really love it . i took photos and also painted the picture. When the trip is ending. I realize that photo and picture are the memory of the trip but they express in different ways. The photo is a realistic feeling than the painting. But the painting is giving much more emotion and passion.

Agree with harm and Tarin about the fact of how the story was told within the picture. Yes, the photo itself contain its meaning of the captured moment, and also agree with another point that Harn has made about the main problem of taking a photograph. However I disagree with the fact that he stated that "it was being made easy to do and most middle class people who would have to think about getting a painting of their family". In my opinion, firstly cameras are not easy to use at that time according to The Birth of Daguerreotype one picture takes around 15-30minutes and also involving a bit of chemistry at that time. Problably, nowadays we understand more about chemistry and its become easily understandable, but thinking of 1800s chemistry does not for middle class people to educated, because the camera itself does not just contain chemical working for taking the photograph. Giving insight in to lenses and other materials it does concern with physic also which suggest the process of making one camera or one picture wasn't easy for uneducated people.

Another similarity with Harn ideas, that painting took much more time to process unlike photograph. On the other hand, painting are more valuable than photograph. photograph can't take surrealist style, we can't bring them into our dream and take what our dream scape is like and also photograph does not last forever, they does decaying photograph can long last about 100 years, but nowadays film they can last long for more than 400 years. Lastly, in my opinion, i think we can't really compare painting and photography together. They are completely different sort of thing photography does tell the story through the view finder and capturing any of the moment that is happening. Similar with painting, but what different is that we can paint we can create anything inside the dimension of our painting some weird shape or any extraordinary meaning.

Camera is one of the creative invention of the world but actually it is not for capture a photo at first. From the past camera was created for the artist to help with thier drawing "to sketch objects more quickly and avoid difficulties of perspective” (Lamar, 2011). So it is a really useful technology for the artist on that time and then it had developed in to camera that we are using in nowadays.
In my opinion, I think that camera are really useful for us like we can photograph a things, person or even a memory in to the picture. I think photograph is a best thing to capture our memories. Also apart from photograph, this invention, camera is developed in to another things like video recorder, animation, movies so if it dosen't have camera from the past we might have no television or movies to watch so we can't decline that camera are one of the very creative thing in this world. According to BBC documentary it stated “This photography not only change the world but also the way people understood the world.” it true, and also a another good quote to explane how use ful photograph is.

Lamar, Connelly. “Photo Class Three” 2011.
“The Genius of Photography” The Genius of Photography Episode 01. BBC Four

I do believe that the invention of camera and photography does really change how people look at the world. Photography is what you now see everyday, and people think that the photo is what you do with the camera but it is also a way of seeing. Every photograph has its own meaning in it, but it depends on how the person views it. In my view, the photographer wants the viewer to see this particular shot of the photo he or she has taken which is an intentional act. And I do agree with this sentence, “Photography is about the frame you put around the image what comes in what cut off and yet the story doesn’t end.” (The genius of photography.) By watching the documentary about this history of photography, it has absolutely leaded me to understand of how photography is a new genius invention to the art world.

I agree with what Nattakul post earlier that "the painters use the camera obscura to help them paint the picture easier also helping them with the perspective" However, in"1826 by French Inventor, Joseph Niepce had created the first picture" (slide, pg.11)

According to the video, there's a man saying that " every kind of photography is using in form of some art" and i agree with this statement because from what i mention above, the painter knows about what camera could do and how can they use for their own benefits. Also, i believe that when we look at the photographs, we knows the story same as paintings. However, painting and photographs will giving you the diffrent feeling and also the different story behind it.

“The vernacular contains some of photography’s greatest naturally occurring pictures, a gift of the medium itself rather than the product of the genius of individual photographer” (The Genius of Photography). Although photographers have to be talented in choosing angles to compose perfect picture, but I have to support the statement because truly camera is the origin in giving capability to capture things we might miss, capture things we can’t see, and most significantly in capturing time. By this I am saying that all photos should be given credits to cameras in bringing the art of photography.

I also agree to the statement, “Photography is about the frame put around the image what comes out in or what is cut off and the yet the story doesn’t end. It’s told beyond the frame as kind of tuition” (The Genius of Photography). It is because of photography people can analyze and reference back to what had happen then, in that time, in that place and it help solve puzzles and gives a greater understanding of what was going on in the past, or clearly in history.
“The Genius of Photography.” The Genius of Photography Episode 1. BBC Four

Camera obscura is mentioned in the “ The Genius of Photography” document. The camera obscura is a device use to project image of the surrounding on a screen. Artists often use is to project an image so they could draw the perspective accurately. After the invention of camera obscura the camera technology developed rapidly. This has both good and bad impact in the world of art. The development of camera allows normal people, not professionals or artist, to be able to take photography. The method of taking picture is also easier thus people often take low quality pictures, they take pictures without considering the artistic or sentimental value, but then, everything is a double-edged sword. Without the technology, we wouldn’t be able to preserve our memory so easily.